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铝合金枪身
[版面:舞刀弄枪][首篇作者:KJ123] , 2019年03月18日17:54:41 ,667次阅读,8次回复
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KJ123
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发信人: KJ123 (KJ123), 信区: GunsAndGears
标  题: 铝合金枪身
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Mon Mar 18 17:54:41 2019, 美东)

对常打的人 每年 > 3千,avoid at all costs。

铝和钢的滑轨磨在一起就是这样。温度过200F铝合金强度会损失30%以上。现代发动机
的铝合金汽缸都有钢的liner,否则几分钟玩完。当然枪打到200F要连发几百发才有可能
。这种用什么润滑油也没用,不像发动机,枪的滑轨是开放的,无法做到时刻不直接接
触。

更要命的是一部分枪商的铝合金rail是cast,连forge都省了。

别小看塑料枪,滑轨是steel insert。比如Glock的frame滑轨是南瓜子大小的4个铁钉
头, 虽然美学上差了点,还是比铝合金好。当然跟full length steel rail视觉上和耐
久性还是明显不同,比如一部分的sig P226,CZ75等。cz75pcr是个败笔, 当然给警察
用的考虑轻重量。这儿买sig家防不随身带的最好steel frame,一部分是steel alloy,
这个很好。

还有不要迷信什么警察用枪,他们考虑很多因素,比如重量,价格等等。
--
※ 修改:·KJ123 於 Mar 18 18:19:36 2019 修改本文·[FROM: 70.]
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ismellpuke
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发信人: ismellpuke (两田鼠奔丧), 信区: GunsAndGears
标  题: Re: 铝合金枪身
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Mon Mar 18 18:40:28 2019, 美东)

机器人的民科贴,版主还是删了吧
现在老邢的机器人连枪版都不放过了。
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ismellpuke
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发信人: ismellpuke (两田鼠奔丧), 信区: GunsAndGears
标  题: Re: 铝合金枪身
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Mon Mar 18 18:43:39 2019, 美东)

The locking block survived 19,948 rounds, which included 2,500 rounds of +P+
, 8,000 rounds of +P and 10,000 rounds of standard 9mm ball. One friend of
mine put it best: 'You fired $4,000 worth of ammunition out of a $450
handgun and broke a $60 part after 19,498 rounds were fired, what more could
you ask?'

用合金枪身的92FS经过20000发才出问题,而且包括 2,500 rounds of +P+
, 8,000 rounds of +P,如果用普通的9mm,3万发都不会有问题



****************************************
Slater  Slater is offline
Member
    
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Arizona
Age: 58
Posts: 806
Beretta 92FS torture test

This somewhat dated article was fished from the Net:


"The Beretta 92FS," by Christopher Bartocci...
...published in Krause Publications' Handguns 2001(13th Edition), states the
following information:

"With the gun's major criticisms in mind, I wanted to see how the M9/92FS
would stand up to a 20,500 round torture test using mostly +P and +P+
ammunition. I purchased a stock 92FS from a local gun distributor and made
some calls for some high-power ammunition. The ammunition used in this test
is as follows: 9X19mm (NATO, Parabellum/Luger) manufactured by Winchester/
Olin Corporation.

Beretta U.S.A. claims their pistol is serviceable to 35,000 rounds and that
it will function under the most adverse conditions. Beretta U.S.A. claims '
the average reliability of all M9s tested at Beretta U.S.A. is 17,500 rounds
without stoppage.' The ammunition I chose was the hottest ammunition
available and I would not recommend anyone put high round counts of +P+
ammunition through any alloy-frame pistol regardless of manufacturer.

The first thing I did was fire for out-of-the-box accuracy, I used the 115-
grain +P+ ammunition and at 15 yards the 15-shot group measured 1.5 inches.
I had nine magazines loaded up and someone loading magazines as I emptied
them and, within 20 minutes, I fired 500 rounds with no malfunctions of any
type...

The next day I began firing 2,000 rounds of the 127-grain +P+SXT, by far the
hottest 9mm ammunition I have ever fired. There were no malfunctions of any
type using this ammunition. Over the next 3 days I fired 8,000 rounds of
9mm NATO, the standard M882 Ball ammunition issued to U.S. military
personnel. The M882 ball cartridge is rated as a +P cartridge by SAAMI
specifications.

The barrel was cleaned every 2,000 to 3,000 rounds. It would take us 45 to
50 minutes to fire 1,000 rounds and, at times, the pistol would become too
hot to handle. I fired 1,000 rounds of Winchester USA 115-grain 9mm ball
with no problems and the pistol, after 11,500 rounds, was still delivering
groups in the 1.5-inch range.

At this point, the pistol was totally disassembled and cleaned. Then I fired
an additional 6,000 rounds of the 115-grain FMJ with only one malfunction.
There was one failure to extract due to an under-powered cartridge, not the
pistol.

After about 15,000 rounds I began to notice some pitting on the right wing
of the locking block. I recommend changing this part when pitting is noted,
but this was a torture test and we wanted to see how long the gun will last.

As of now 17,500 rounds have been fired and I headed back to the range to
fire the remaining 3,000 rounds. Finally at round count 19,498, I had a
locking block failure. The left wing of the locking block broke and the
pistol's slide locked up. By pushing down on the broken wing with a drift
punch, the action was freed and the pistol subsequently disassembled,
revealing some minimal frame damage - but nothing that would affect the
operation of the pistol. I changed the locking block and within 10 minutes I
was back in action and concluded the test with no other malfunctions. The
last 15 rounds were fired for accuracy; the group measured about 1.75 inches
at 15 yards. The accuracy had hardly changed at all.

The locking block survived 19,948 rounds, which included 2,500 rounds of +P+
, 8,000 rounds of +P and 10,000 rounds of standard 9mm ball. One friend of
mine put it best: 'You fired $4,000 worth of ammunition out of a $450
handgun and broke a $60 part after 19,498 rounds were fired, what more could
you ask?'

I feel very few pistols will ever see this round count - except for a
military pistol. For many years I have heard people claim the Beretta M9/
92FS was a fragile gun because of those early, isolated incidents. Following
this torture test, I know this gun is far from fragile! There is no
question in my mind the pistol is serviceable to 35,000 rounds; I would not
be surprised to see it last 50,000 rounds. The Beretta M9/92FS is, in my
opinion, one of the most reliable firearms ever produced - and this test
proved it."


My question: Was the level of sustained accuracy due to the Beretta's chrome
-lined barrel or would other pistols have performed comparably in this
regard?


--
※ 修改:·ismellpuke 於 Mar 18 18:46:46 2019 修改本文·[FROM: 141.]
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KJ123
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发信人: KJ123 (KJ123), 信区: GunsAndGears
标  题: Re: 铝合金枪身
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Mon Mar 18 23:08:38 2019, 美东)

many plastic guns inlcuding glocks, XDs well passed 50K rounds without
frame cracks.

实际上,这beretta 大概10Krounds 时候 rails wear就明显了,当然不影响射击。j即
使有wear,实际上跟glock的loose fit也差不了多少。

但是rail wear不是什么正常的事,即使不影响使用。


【 在 ismellpuke (两田鼠奔丧) 的大作中提到: 】
: The locking block survived 19,948 rounds, which included 2,500 rounds of +
P+
: , 8,000 rounds of +P and 10,000 rounds of standard 9mm ball. One friend of
: mine put it best: 'You fired $4,000 worth of ammunition out of a $450
: handgun and broke a $60 part after 19,498 rounds were fired, what more
could
: you ask?'
: 用合金枪身的92FS经过20000发才出问题,而且包括 2,500 rounds of +P+
: , 8,000 rounds of +P,如果用普通的9mm,3万发都不会有问题
: ****************************************
: Slater  Slater is offline
: Member
: ...................




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※ 修改:·KJ123 於 Mar 18 23:17:16 2019 修改本文·[FROM: 70.]
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KJ123
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发信人: KJ123 (KJ123), 信区: GunsAndGears
标  题: Re: 铝合金枪身
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Mon Mar 18 23:12:29 2019, 美东)

您专业,倒是说说道理?

铝合金和钢的结合wear 是事实。至于严重到无法使用这倒是不多。但这种磨损喜欢不
喜欢是个人的preference。枪商在铝合金上做cast也是事实。

【 在 ismellpuke (两田鼠奔丧) 的大作中提到: 】
: 机器人的民科贴,版主还是删了吧
: 现在老邢的机器人连枪版都不放过了。




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※ 修改:·KJ123 於 Mar 18 23:13:48 2019 修改本文·[FROM: 70.]
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ismellpuke
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发信人: ismellpuke (两田鼠奔丧), 信区: GunsAndGears
标  题: Re: 铝合金枪身
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Mar 19 01:20:10 2019, 美东)

轨道那点磨擦力和闭锁机构承受的的冲击比,微不足道,上文中坏的是locking block
而不是轨道,就证明了这一点,用合金枪身一点问题没有,格牢靠的闭锁机构靠的是在
塑料枪身中嵌入一个钢制零件,合金枪身在对应的地方也嵌了钢制零件,谁会在这里用
铝合金呢?


【 在 KJ123(KJ123) 的大作中提到: 】
<br>: 您专业,倒是说说道理?
<br>: 铝合金和钢的结合wear 是事实。至于严重到无法使用这倒是不多。但这种磨损
喜欢不
<br>: 喜欢是个人的preference。枪商在铝合金上做cast也是事实。
<br>
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ismellpuke
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发信人: ismellpuke (两田鼠奔丧), 信区: GunsAndGears
标  题: Re: 铝合金枪身
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Mar 19 01:26:16 2019, 美东)

刚刚看了一下西格p226和格牢靠22的枪管是如何卡在枪身上,方式完全一样,卡铁的角
度几乎都一样,两个在关键部位都嵌了钢制零件,实在看不出哪个更牢靠,我的手枪里
用铁枪身的只有三个:1911, cz 75b, browning hipower,说实话,我对用合金枪身的
贝雷塔92FS更有信心


【 在 ismellpuke(两田鼠奔丧) 的大作中提到: 】
<br>: 轨道那点磨擦力和闭锁机构承受的的冲击比,微不足道,上文中坏的是
locking
block
<br>: 而不是轨道,就证明了这一点,用合金枪身一点问题没有,格牢靠的闭锁
机构靠
的是在
<br>: 塑料枪身中嵌入一个钢制零件,合金枪身在对应的地方也嵌了钢制零件,
谁会在
这里用
<br>: 铝合金呢?
<br>: 喜欢不
<br>

--
※ 修改:·ismellpuke 於 Mar 19 01:31:36 2019 修改本文·[FROM: 72.]
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kisskaren
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发信人: kisskaren (JJ Hu), 信区: GunsAndGears
标  题: 铝合金枪身
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Fri Mar 22 14:09:01 2019, 美东)

纯比赛/靶枪就全钢
其他无所谓


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