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Re: memory usage
[版面:窗口里的风景][首篇作者:kongzi] , 2003年10月20日09:32:06 ,539次阅读,35次回复
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LodossWar
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发信人: LodossWar (sleepycat), 信区: DotNet
标  题: Re: memory usage
发信站: Unknown Space - 未名空间 (Tue Oct 21 15:57:19 2003) WWW-POST

【 在 magicfat (魔法胖子) 的大作中提到: 】
: 【 在 LodossWar (sleepycat) 的大作中提到: 】
: : hehe. I have to say. This is not that right.
: : 1. It's hard to persuade clients using this words.
:
: Show them the bottom line, and they will be "persuaded". LOL
:
: : 2. Java and C# is not that "efficient" as you said.
: :    A real professional C++ programmer can achive almost
: :    the same productivity as Java programmers. But this kind of
:
: I would be glad to believe that if you have some statistical data supporting
: it.  Besides, I was comparing C to Java/C#.
I read one paper before. But not save it.
The problem of C++ is too many C++ programmers are programming in a C style.
sigh. smart pointer and other memory management system is there but seldom
know
how to use it. :(
C++ programmer have mature IDE and other tools. Not like the students using
emacs and gdb. Althought that's cool.


: :    c++ programmer needs long time to train.
:
: And hence more expensive to hire, which adds to the right side of your
: "persuasion". 8-)
I agree. This is why Java and C# get popular. You know how popular VB is?
hehe.
But java and C# is definetely better than VB. I just want to show you, getting
popular does not mean techniqually sound.


: [snip]
: : The key points here are:
: : 1. java and C# is popular because they are easy to use and powerful
: :    enough to do general stuffs.
: : 2. system level knowledge is necessary. For c++ programmer, you have
: :    to know the details of memory mangement and .... For java and C#,
: :    you have to know how VM runs and memory mangement. The only differnece
: :    is your program may not that easy to crash in VM.
:
: No... you don't have to know how the VM works or how memory management works
: to
: write good quality Java programs.  In fact, sometimes I think overly
focusing
: on the details can hurt the overall quality of your program, because it
: distracts you from working on the real significant aspects - your algorithm,
: your design, and your metrics quality.

hehe, sooner or later you need to know some detials about Java's memory
management, for example, serveral different references and how to use them.
You also need to know how garbage colleciton works.
Well, all these are not "must". You can make funtional program without this
knowledge, but this makes you professioanl. You can write better program with
this knowledge.
If the performance is a requirement in your project, you'd better know this.
Otherwise you need to google for some performance guide-line and remember
that.

: : 3. Performance sometimes is requirement. Finishing a functioning system
: :    doesn't mean you developed a succesful product. In business world,
: :    those words like "hardware will solve the problem" doesn't work. :)
:
: It doesn't work?  How do you think Java gained its popularity, and C# is
: gaining its?
: LOL, come to think of it, now I realize that the "hardware takes care of it"
: approach actually works a lot better in the business world than in the
: academic one.

Sigh. You know what does "scalability" means? You can't solve exponential
increasement problem with hardware upgrade. Your algorithm is the most
important. (I don't suggest you to write code using another language.)

"hardware takes care of it" and clustering is good. Java and C# is good. What
I want to remind people here is "performance requirement" always exist in
business world. :)


--
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LodossWar
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发信人: LodossWar (sleepycat), 信区: DotNet
标  题: Re: memory usage
发信站: Unknown Space - 未名空间 (Tue Oct 21 15:59:44 2003) WWW-POST

Actually Java and C# are not suitable for real time computing, which is a fact
in current industry.

In other area, they are fine.

BTW, Java swing is not a good choice for GUI except toy programs. :)

【 在 kongzi (鸡龟骨滚羹) 的大作中提到: 】
: oops,java gained its popularity of what?!
: 【 在 magicfat (魔法胖子) 的大作中提到: 】
: : 【 在 LodossWar (sleepycat) 的大作中提到: 】
: : : hehe. I have to say. This is not that right.
: : : 1. It's hard to persuade clients using this words.
: :
: : Show them the bottom line, and they will be "persuaded". LOL
: :
: : : 2. Java and C# is not that "efficient" as you said.
: : :    A real professional C++ programmer can achive almost
: : :    the same productivity as Java programmers. But this kind of
: :
: : I would be glad to believe that if you have some statistical data
supporting
: : it.  Besides, I was comparing C to Java/C#.
: :
: : :    c++ programmer needs long time to train.
: :
: : And hence more expensive to hire, which adds to the right side of your
: : "persuasion". 8-)
: :
: : [snip]
: : : The key points here are:
: : : 1. java and C# is popular because they are easy to use and powerful
: : :    enough to do general stuffs.
: : : 2. system level knowledge is necessary. For c++ programmer, you have
: : :    to know the details of memory mangement and .... For java and C#,
: : :    you have to know how VM runs and memory mangement. The only
differnece
: : :    is your program may not that easy to crash in VM.
: :
: : No... you don't have to know how the VM works or how memory management
works
: : to
: : write good quality Java programs.  In fact, sometimes I think overly
: focusing
: : on the details can hurt the overall quality of your program, because it
: : distracts you from working on the real significant aspects - your
algorithm,
: : your design, and your metrics quality.
: :
: : : 3. Performance sometimes is requirement. Finishing a functioning system
: : :    doesn't mean you developed a succesful product. In business world,
: : :    those words like "hardware will solve the problem" doesn't work. :)
: :
: : It doesn't work?  How do you think Java gained its popularity, and C# is
: : gaining its?
: : LOL, come to think of it, now I realize that the "hardware takes care of
it"
: : approach actually works a lot better in the business world than in the
: : academic one.
: :
: :
:


--
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LodossWar
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发信人: LodossWar (sleepycat), 信区: DotNet
标  题: Re: memory usage
发信站: Unknown Space - 未名空间 (Tue Oct 21 16:01:10 2003) WWW-POST

For beginners, there is difference.

For professinoals, language is not that important. hehe.

【 在 st (月光下老虎慢慢吃人) 的大作中提到: 】
: I dont see any answer here, just some java fans yelling.
:
: 【 在 magicfat (魔法胖子) 的大作中提到: 】
: : 【 在 kongzi (鸡龟骨滚羹) 的大作中提到: 】
: : : oops,java gained its popularity of what?!
: : My answer would have been much longer were this on some other board.
: : But since this is DotNet, this would do:
: : "Open - your - eyes!"   8-)
:
:


--
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st
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发信人: st (月光下老虎慢慢吃人), 信区: DotNet
标  题: Re: memory usage
发信站: Unknown Space - 未名空间 (Tue Oct 21 16:02:13 2003), 站内信件

programming habit, software engineering habit etc.
company politics.... etc...

【 在 LodossWar (sleepycat) 的大作中提到: 】
: For beginners, there is difference.
: For professinoals, language is not that important. hehe.
: 【 在 st (月光下老虎慢慢吃人) 的大作中提到: 】
: : I dont see any answer here, just some java fans yelling.


--
一只小老虎慢慢的走了过来。红着脸,问小松鼠说,“请问。。。我可以吃你吗?”
小松鼠觉得这个问法蛮好玩的,说“你是第一次吃动物吗?”小老虎更不好意思了,说,
“是的。。。妈妈不在家了。。。”“那。。你以前吃什么呢?”小松鼠又好奇的问到。
“……”“什么?说大声点。。。我听不到”“吃奶!”说完,小老虎的脸更红更红了。
--[转载]月光下老虎慢慢吃人

※ 来源:.Unknown Space - 未名空间 mitbbs.com.[FROM: 204.71.]

 
LodossWar
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发信人: LodossWar (sleepycat), 信区: DotNet
标  题: Re: memory usage
发信站: Unknown Space - 未名空间 (Tue Oct 21 16:10:37 2003) WWW-POST

Enterprise area java rocks.
But actually J2EE has its own problem. It has a good architecture, but it is
not good at "achieve a goal in short time" style project.

Many J2EE porjects failed to meet the deadline because the way is "heavy
weight". .Net is more "light weight", but need some time to refine its
architecture.

Let's wait and see. :)

【 在 magicfat (魔法胖子) 的大作中提到: 】
: 【 在 kongzi (鸡龟骨滚羹) 的大作中提到: 】
: : oops,java gained its popularity of what?!
:
: My answer would have been much longer were this on some other board.
: But since this is DotNet, this would do:
: "Open - your - eyes!"   8-)
:




--
※ 修改:·LodossWar 於 Oct 21 16:10:37 修改本文·[FROM: 151.201.]
※ 来源:.Unknown Space - 未名空间 mitbbs.com.[FROM: 151.201.]

 
LodossWar
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发信人: LodossWar (sleepycat), 信区: DotNet
标  题: Re: memory usage
发信站: Unknown Space - 未名空间 (Tue Oct 21 16:09:45 2003) WWW-POST

//hand.

【 在 st (月光下老虎慢慢吃人) 的大作中提到: 】
: programming habit, software engineering habit etc.
: company politics.... etc...
:
: 【 在 LodossWar (sleepycat) 的大作中提到: 】
: : For beginners, there is difference.
: : For professinoals, language is not that important. hehe.
: : 【 在 st (月光下老虎慢慢吃人) 的大作中提到: 】
: : : I dont see any answer here, just some java fans yelling.
:
:


--
※ 来源:.Unknown Space - 未名空间 mitbbs.com.[FROM: 151.201.]

 
kongzi
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发信人: kongzi (鸡龟骨滚羹), 信区: DotNet
标  题: Re: memory usage
发信站: Unknown Space - 未名空间 (Tue Oct 21 17:41:27 2003) WWW-POST

I don't agree with this one.
Professionals know more about the advantages and disadvantages of different
languages.That may probably more picky on choosing the right tool to get
things done.I was told on .net summit that in one project they used c# in like
20 modules and 1 in vb .net because they know it's easier and also has better
performance in that case(I forgot the reason,sorry about that).Also in the
past,tons of asm was embedded in the c or c++ programs.
So languages matter.【 在 LodossWar (sleepycat) 的大作中提到: 】
: For beginners, there is difference.
:
: For professinoals, language is not that important. hehe.
:
: 【 在 st (月光下老虎慢慢吃人) 的大作中提到: 】
: : I dont see any answer here, just some java fans yelling.
: :
: : 【 在 magicfat (魔法胖子) 的大作中提到: 】
: : : 【 在 kongzi (鸡龟骨滚羹) 的大作中提到: 】
: : : : oops,java gained its popularity of what?!
: : : My answer would have been much longer were this on some other board.
: : : But since this is DotNet, this would do:
: : : "Open - your - eyes!"   8-)
: :
: :
:
:

--
God,
give us grace to accept with serenity the things that cannot be changed,
courage to change the things which should be changed and the wisdom to disti
nguish the one from the other.

※ 来源:.Unknown Space - 未名空间 mitbbs.com.[FROM: 199.3.]

 
LodossWar
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发信人: LodossWar (sleepycat), 信区: DotNet
标  题: Re: memory usage
发信站: Unknown Space - 未名空间 (Tue Oct 21 18:57:51 2003) WWW-POST

hehe. I agree with that. I have done computer graphics programming before.
And for performance, algorithm change is the first choice. In the famous
"black book", the author also illustrated this to us. He is definetely an asm
expert. :)

But my point is for "productivity":
I mean professionals will at the same level with his favoriate languges.
For example, c++ experts will achive almost same level productivity as java
experts. But c++ beginners won't achive the same level productivity as junior
java programmers.

Actually, C++/Java/C# are in the same family. They are just evolution and
improvement. 

BTW, I don't understand this part.
"in one project they used c# in like
: 20 modules and 1 in vb .net because they know it's easier and also has
better
: performance in that case"

Doesn't make any sense. Why VB.Net? Nothing in VB.Net is better than C#. The
only reason is they have a former VB programmer.

BTW, don't 100% trust MS's words. hehe. They knew COM won't work out 5 years
ago but only say that today. :)


【 在 kongzi (鸡龟骨滚羹) 的大作中提到: 】
: I don't agree with this one.
: Professionals know more about the advantages and disadvantages of different
: languages.That may probably more picky on choosing the right tool to get
: things done.I was told on .net summit that in one project they used c# in
like
: 20 modules and 1 in vb .net because they know it's easier and also has
better
: performance in that case(I forgot the reason,sorry about that).Also in the
: past,tons of asm was embedded in the c or c++ programs.
: So languages matter.【 在 LodossWar (sleepycat) 的大作中提到: 】
: : For beginners, there is difference.
: :
: : For professinoals, language is not that important. hehe.
: :
: : 【 在 st (月光下老虎慢慢吃人) 的大作中提到: 】
: : : I dont see any answer here, just some java fans yelling.
: : :
: : : 【 在 magicfat (魔法胖子) 的大作中提到: 】
: : : : 【 在 kongzi (鸡龟骨滚羹) 的大作中提到: 】
: : : : : oops,java gained its popularity of what?!
: : : : My answer would have been much longer were this on some other board.
: : : : But since this is DotNet, this would do:
: : : : "Open - your - eyes!"   8-)
: : :
: : :
: :
: :
:


--
※ 来源:.Unknown Space - 未名空间 mitbbs.com.[FROM: 151.201.]

 
kongzi
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发信人: kongzi (鸡龟骨滚羹), 信区: DotNet
标  题: Re: memory usage
发信站: Unknown Space - 未名空间 (Tue Oct 21 20:39:48 2003) WWW-POST

1.about the why vb.net but not c#,sorry I don't remember the detail,but there
is something that is implemented in vb.net but not in c#.I am not familiar
with vb.net,but I still believe what they said(don't think they are both built
on .net framework that makes them no difference)

2.about com,I would say com+ is still ok but I don't like dcom.
one more question.Does microsoft admit that com doesn't achieve its original
goal?But they are still giving the com 2.0 idea in .net.Is there any big
change in it?
【 在 LodossWar (sleepycat) 的大作中提到: 】
: hehe. I agree with that. I have done computer graphics programming before.
: And for performance, algorithm change is the first choice. In the famous
: "black book", the author also illustrated this to us. He is definetely an
asm
: expert. :)
:
: But my point is for "productivity":
: I mean professionals will at the same level with his favoriate languges.
: For example, c++ experts will achive almost same level productivity as java
: experts. But c++ beginners won't achive the same level productivity as
junior
: java programmers.
:
: Actually, C++/Java/C# are in the same family. They are just evolution and
: improvement. 
:
: BTW, I don't understand this part.
: "in one project they used c# in like
: : 20 modules and 1 in vb .net because they know it's easier and also has
: better
: : performance in that case"
:
: Doesn't make any sense. Why VB.Net? Nothing in VB.Net is better than C#. The
: only reason is they have a former VB programmer.
:
: BTW, don't 100% trust MS's words. hehe. They knew COM won't work out 5 years
: ago but only say that today. :)
:
:
: 【 在 kongzi (鸡龟骨滚羹) 的大作中提到: 】
: : I don't agree with this one.
: : Professionals know more about the advantages and disadvantages of
different
: : languages.That may probably more picky on choosing the right tool to get
: : things done.I was told on .net summit that in one project they used c# in
: like
: : 20 modules and 1 in vb .net because they know it's easier and also has
: better
: : performance in that case(I forgot the reason,sorry about that).Also in the
: : past,tons of asm was embedded in the c or c++ programs.
: : So languages matter.【 在 LodossWar (sleepycat) 的大作中提到: 】
: : : For beginners, there is difference.
: : :
: : : For professinoals, language is not that important. hehe.
: : :
: : : 【 在 st (月光下老虎慢慢吃人) 的大作中提到: 】
: : : : I dont see any answer here, just some java fans yelling.
: : : :
: : : : 【 在 magicfat (魔法胖子) 的大作中提到: 】
: : : : : 【 在 kongzi (鸡龟骨滚羹) 的大作中提到: 】
: : : : : : oops,java gained its popularity of what?!
: : : : : My answer would have been much longer were this on some other board.
: : : : : But since this is DotNet, this would do:

--
God,
give us grace to accept with serenity the things that cannot be changed,
courage to change the things which should be changed and the wisdom to disti
nguish the one from the other.

※ 来源:.Unknown Space - 未名空间 mitbbs.com.[FROM: 198.82.]

 
LodossWar
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发信人: LodossWar (sleepycat), 信区: DotNet
标  题: Re: memory usage
发信站: Unknown Space - 未名空间 (Tue Oct 21 20:44:14 2003) WWW-POST

One of my friends got those information directly in the Microsoft meeting
recently. forgot the name of the conference.

【 在 kongzi (鸡龟骨滚羹) 的大作中提到: 】
: 1.about the why vb.net but not c#,sorry I don't remember the detail,but
there
: is something that is implemented in vb.net but not in c#.I am not familiar
: with vb.net,but I still believe what they said(don't think they are both
built
: on .net framework that makes them no difference)
:
: 2.about com,I would say com+ is still ok but I don't like dcom.
: one more question.Does microsoft admit that com doesn't achieve its original
: goal?But they are still giving the com 2.0 idea in .net.Is there any big
: change in it?
: 【 在 LodossWar (sleepycat) 的大作中提到: 】
: : hehe. I agree with that. I have done computer graphics programming before.

: : And for performance, algorithm change is the first choice. In the famous
: : "black book", the author also illustrated this to us. He is definetely an
: asm
: : expert. :)
: :
: : But my point is for "productivity":
: : I mean professionals will at the same level with his favoriate languges.
: : For example, c++ experts will achive almost same level productivity as
java
: : experts. But c++ beginners won't achive the same level productivity as
: junior
: : java programmers.
: :
: : Actually, C++/Java/C# are in the same family. They are just evolution and
: : improvement. 
: :
: : BTW, I don't understand this part.
: : "in one project they used c# in like
: : : 20 modules and 1 in vb .net because they know it's easier and also has
: : better
: : : performance in that case"
: :
: : Doesn't make any sense. Why VB.Net? Nothing in VB.Net is better than C#.
The
: : only reason is they have a former VB programmer.
: :
: : BTW, don't 100% trust MS's words. hehe. They knew COM won't work out 5
years
: : ago but only say that today. :)
: :
: :
: : 【 在 kongzi (鸡龟骨滚羹) 的大作中提到: 】
: : : I don't agree with this one.
: : : Professionals know more about the advantages and disadvantages of
: different
: : : languages.That may probably more picky on choosing the right tool to get
: : : things done.I was told on .net summit that in one project they used c#
in
: : like
: : : 20 modules and 1 in vb .net because they know it's easier and also has
: : better
: : : performance in that case(I forgot the reason,sorry about that).Also in
the
: : : past,tons of asm was embedded in the c or c++ programs.


--
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LodossWar
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发信人: LodossWar (sleepycat), 信区: DotNet
标  题: Re: memory usage
发信站: Unknown Space - 未名空间 (Tue Oct 21 20:49:45 2003) WWW-POST

reference counting has its problem in theory.
registry storage is a hell.
:)

【 在 kongzi (鸡龟骨滚羹) 的大作中提到: 】
: 1.about the why vb.net but not c#,sorry I don't remember the detail,but
there
: is something that is implemented in vb.net but not in c#.I am not familiar
: with vb.net,but I still believe what they said(don't think they are both
built
: on .net framework that makes them no difference)
:
: 2.about com,I would say com+ is still ok but I don't like dcom.
: one more question.Does microsoft admit that com doesn't achieve its original
: goal?But they are still giving the com 2.0 idea in .net.Is there any big
: change in it?



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kongzi
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发信人: kongzi (鸡龟骨滚羹), 信区: DotNet
标  题: Re: memory usage
发信站: Unknown Space - 未名空间 (Tue Oct 21 21:08:45 2003) WWW-POST

true
that's why .net go back to xcopy style
【 在 LodossWar (sleepycat) 的大作中提到: 】
: reference counting has its problem in theory.
: registry storage is a hell.
: :)
:
: 【 在 kongzi (鸡龟骨滚羹) 的大作中提到: 】
: : 1.about the why vb.net but not c#,sorry I don't remember the detail,but
: there
: : is something that is implemented in vb.net but not in c#.I am not familiar
: : with vb.net,but I still believe what they said(don't think they are both
: built
: : on .net framework that makes them no difference)
: :
: : 2.about com,I would say com+ is still ok but I don't like dcom.
: : one more question.Does microsoft admit that com doesn't achieve its
original
: : goal?But they are still giving the com 2.0 idea in .net.Is there any big
: : change in it?
:
:
:

--
God,
give us grace to accept with serenity the things that cannot be changed,
courage to change the things which should be changed and the wisdom to disti
nguish the one from the other.

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magicfat
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发信人: magicfat (魔法胖子), 信区: DotNet
标  题: Re: memory usage
发信站: Unknown Space - 未名空间 (Tue Oct 21 23:48:43 2003), 站内信件

【 在 LodossWar (sleepycat) 的大作中提到: 】
: But java and C# is definetely better than VB. I just want to show you, getting
: popular does not mean techniqually sound.

that's exactly the "academic world" mentality I was talking about...

: Sigh. You know what does "scalability" means? You can't solve exponential
: increasement problem with hardware upgrade. Your algorithm is the most

That's not a valid argument.  There is some problem (namely the exponential
explosion problem) that hardware upgrade cannot solve, does not effectively
overrule the more generic claim that hardware upgrade can solve a lot of
performance problem.

: important. (I don't suggest you to write code using another language.)
: "hardware takes care of it" and clustering is good. Java and C# is good. What
: I want to remind people here is "performance requirement" always exist in
: business world. :)

OK, here's the deal. People have realized that out of an entire IT system,
software is the most complicated and the least automated, and hence the
most error-prone and expensive part. The complexity
of software increases exponentially with the amount of features it needs
to provide. Naturally, in the cost/profit-centric business world,
whenever possible, people tend to avoid from fighting this almost
hopeless battle, and turn to some other solutions - e.g.,
alleviate the performance issues with better hardware instead of better
software, because of the significantly less cost.

--
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LodossWar
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发信人: LodossWar (sleepycat), 信区: DotNet
标  题: Re: memory usage
发信站: Unknown Space - 未名空间 (Wed Oct 22 10:02:10 2003) WWW-POST

My point:
1. Just choose the solution suitable for your requirement and context. The
important question is "what's your goal.".
2. "Hardware upgrade" is not always the solution. It's just one of the
solution.
3. Algorithm is key for performance problem. It can save your a lot hardware
and it is not always that hard.
4. You need to compare the cost/profit of "hardwaew upgrade" and "algorithm
tuning" to make the final decision.

details see following:

【 在 magicfat (魔法胖子) 的大作中提到: 】
: 【 在 LodossWar (sleepycat) 的大作中提到: 】
: : But java and C# is definetely better than VB. I just want to show you,
getting
: : popular does not mean techniqually sound.
: that's exactly the "academic world" mentality I was talking about...

OK. If you think VB is good. I have no word to say. Language war can last for
ever, just as OS war. :)

: : Sigh. You know what does "scalability" means? You can't solve exponential
: : increasement problem with hardware upgrade. Your algorithm is the most
:
: That's not a valid argument.  There is some problem (namely the exponential
: explosion problem) that hardware upgrade cannot solve, does not effectively
: overrule the more generic claim that hardware upgrade can solve a lot of
: performance problem.

hehe. I don't want to argue. I just want to remind you that algorithm is
important. Don't always rely on the "hardware upgrade" solution. Sometimes it
is impossible "at your time". I had been asked to finish a virtual reality
system many years ago on PC which was only possible on SGI at that time. It is
truly possible in today's PC hardware, but very hard in that day's hardware.
Hardware becomes faster, but never faster than customer's imagination. :)

: : important. (I don't suggest you to write code using another language.)
: : "hardware takes care of it" and clustering is good. Java and C# is good.
What
: : I want to remind people here is "performance requirement" always exist in
: : business world. :)
:
: OK, here's the deal. People have realized that out of an entire IT system,
: software is the most complicated and the least automated, and hence the
: most error-prone and expensive part. The complexity
: of software increases exponentially with the amount of features it needs
: to provide. Naturally, in the cost/profit-centric business world,
: whenever possible, people tend to avoid from fighting this almost
: hopeless battle, and turn to some other solutions - e.g.,
: alleviate the performance issues with better hardware instead of better
: software, because of the significantly less cost.

I want to say:
In a business world, typically companies competes for a project. Your company
has to give the customer a good price to win this project. You are thinking
about the cost/profit in your company's side. But in fact your customer is
thinking about their cost/profit ratio. You know which one is deterministic in
this game. NOT YOURS. right?
"Do more with less" will win. right?
They have some formal way to calculate the administration fee, not the way you
are thinking about. It's based on statistics. This part is just the war of
salemans.
Software part is hard. But it is easier to upgrade if this upgrade is not
expensive.




--
※ 修改:·LodossWar 於 Oct 22 10:02:10 修改本文·[FROM: 151.201.]
※ 来源:.Unknown Space - 未名空间 mitbbs.com.[FROM: 151.201.]

 
magicfat
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发信人: magicfat (魔法胖子), 信区: DotNet
标  题: Re: memory usage
发信站: Unknown Space - 未名空间 (Wed Oct 22 11:55:10 2003) WWW-POST

【 在 LodossWar (sleepycat) 的大作中提到: 】
: My point:
: 1. Just choose the solution suitable for your requirement and context. The
: important question is "what's your goal.".
: 2. "Hardware upgrade" is not always the solution. It's just one of the
: solution.
: 3. Algorithm is key for performance problem. It can save your a lot hardware
: and it is not always that hard.
: 4. You need to compare the cost/profit of "hardwaew upgrade" and "algorithm
: tuning" to make the final decision.

I don't disagree with you on any of these counts, but then they are *never*
what we were debating on, are they?  If you wouldn't mind going back and
reading some of the original messages, we were discussing whether hardware
upgrade in most of the time is a favorable solution over choosing a
lower-level language/tool (remember the C vs. Java/C# talk?)

: OK. If you think VB is good. I have no word to say. Language war can last
for
: ever, just as OS war. :)

Did I say "VB is good", or did I imply it anywhere?  8-)
What I was trying to say is what I have been repeating again and again to a
lot of people - in the business world, a solution is "sound" if it is sound
from business perspective.  Anything "technologically sound" but cannot sell
to the business customers is not "sound", period.  You can bash something to
be "technically inferior" however you like, but it doesn't do any good other
than making yourself feeling better.  (In case you feel bad reading that,
"you" here doesn't mean *you* 8-)

: hehe. I don't want to argue. I just want to remind you that algorithm is
: important. Don't always rely on the "hardware upgrade" solution. Sometimes
it

I can't agree with you enough.  But again, we are *not* talking about
algorithm optimization.
And did I ever say we should "always" rely on hardware upgrade?


--
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LodossWar
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发信人: LodossWar (sleepycat), 信区: DotNet
标  题: Re: memory usage
发信站: Unknown Space - 未名空间 (Thu Oct 23 10:29:48 2003) WWW-POST

【 在 magicfat (魔法胖子) 的大作中提到: 】
: 【 在 LodossWar (sleepycat) 的大作中提到: 】
: : My point:
: : 1. Just choose the solution suitable for your requirement and context. The
: : important question is "what's your goal.".
: : 2. "Hardware upgrade" is not always the solution. It's just one of the
: : solution.
: : 3. Algorithm is key for performance problem. It can save your a lot
hardware
: : and it is not always that hard.
: : 4. You need to compare the cost/profit of "hardwaew upgrade" and
"algorithm
: : tuning" to make the final decision.
:
: I don't disagree with you on any of these counts, but then they are *never*
: what we were debating on, are they?  If you wouldn't mind going back and
: reading some of the original messages, we were discussing whether hardware
: upgrade in most of the time is a favorable solution over choosing a
: lower-level language/tool (remember the C vs. Java/C# talk?)
OK. So we don't need to argue.

: : OK. If you think VB is good. I have no word to say. Language war can last
: for
: : ever, just as OS war. :)
:
: Did I say "VB is good", or did I imply it anywhere?  8-)
: What I was trying to say is what I have been repeating again and again to a
: lot of people - in the business world, a solution is "sound" if it is sound
: from business perspective.  Anything "technologically sound" but cannot sell
: to the business customers is not "sound", period.  You can bash something to
: be "technically inferior" however you like, but it doesn't do any good other
: than making yourself feeling better.  (In case you feel bad reading that,
: "you" here doesn't mean *you* 8-)
:
: : hehe. I don't want to argue. I just want to remind you that algorithm is
: : important. Don't always rely on the "hardware upgrade" solution. Sometimes
: it
:
: I can't agree with you enough.  But again, we are *not* talking about
: algorithm optimization.
: And did I ever say we should "always" rely on hardware upgrade?
hehe. Ok.


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